In the second part of The Royal Gazette's look at the Progressive Labour Party leadership candidates' views on key issues, Deputy Premier Paula Cox and former Energy Minister Terry Lister spoke to Tim Smith about Independence, jobs, race relations, human rights and health care.

Independence

Terry Lister:

Mr. Lister said: "I have been for Independence all my life: I can't wait for it. However, I also know you are supposed to listen to the people. When the polls show 19 percent in favour, it's just plain a non-starter.

"What I will do is poll it from time to time to see what the noise looks like. If it jumps up to 30 percent one day, and then we start to talk about it, and then it goes up to 40 percent, you can rest assured we go full steam ahead and do all the right things.

"But we are not going to waste time and energy at 19 percent."

Paula Cox :

Ms Cox describes Independence as an issue for "further down the line" if she takes over as Premier — possibly for her second term she hopes would begin in 2014.

"I support Independence," she said. "It's something the PLP is committed to. But I don't think it's going to be a front burner item right now, while we have jobs, the economy and crime as our main concerns.

"I don't think you will see it in the first term, although the level of conversation may start to increase towards the end."

Jobs

Paula Cox :

Many have claimed this year's payroll tax increase has hit the jobs market — but Finance Minister Ms Cox believes it's encouraged businesses to be more innovative.

"Businesses are saying they had a way of doing business that wasn't necessarily the most innovative. They have said they have had to rejig their model," she said.

"The market is slow, consumer confidence is low. They are having to do more with less."

Ms Cox says there's a chance the payroll tax rate could be lowered, if not completely reversed, as Bermuda starts to recover from the economic crisis.

Meanwhile she says the Chamber of Commerce's Buy Local campaign is one example of how businesses can think outside the box to make sure they don't have to lay people off during the struggle.

And she points out Government is also helping with tax breaks for restaurants and hotels, while pledging employment opportunities will emerge in areas such as construction as she tries to stimulate the economy.

Terry Lister :

Mr. Lister would consider relaxing the unpopular payroll tax increase which some businesses say have led to job losses and prevented them hiring people.

"I do believe payroll tax has had an impact," he said. "If we believe there's any capacity to save the amount of money that a one percent payroll tax represents, I will certainly strongly consider relaxing payroll tax by one percent — but I will have to find savings."

The one-time Energy Minister says there are jobs to be found in the 'green' economy, which could be one way of stimulating Bermuda's wider economy.

And following complaints that companies such as Island Construction and Correia Construction have been consuming all Government's contracts under Premier Ewart Brown, he said: "Construction work needs to be spread around.

"I really want to bring the whole Country together. I don't plan to favour one group over another group; on the other hand we have to look at groups left behind in the past and try to level things.

"If we can show that we have given work to as many competent people as we can find, this will make people happy."

Race

Terry Lister:

Mr. Lister says the older generation can learn from how their younger peers deal with race.

"If we can model ourselves at all, we can model ourselves as older people on our younger people, who seem to have beaten this thing and moved forward," he said.

People often look for racism that isn't even there, he says, explaining that if a white person doesn't hold open a door for a black person: "It doesn't mean he's racist — it means he didn't see you.

"We need to get past the first thought that says, 'This is racist.'"

Describing what would happen under his administration, he said: "For starters, we would lower the volume, soften the tone, talk to each other not shout at each other.

"I would simply ask people in positions of responsibility, be they politicians, sports people or whoever, to be civil. And that sounds very naive, but it's not.

"Bermudians of all races are tired of the shouting, the overtone and all that."

He says some of the rhetoric of the past four years has been politically motivated and unnecessary.

But he says anti-racism group CURE should be used more effectively to deal with institutionalised racism as quickly as possible.

And he believes the Workforce Equity Bill, which would introduce heavy fines for companies blocking the progress of blacks but was discarded three years ago, should be brought back into consideration.

Mr. Lister notes Front Street has lost much of its strength due to the Butterfield Bank share collapse, meaning Government would not have to fight that issue with a vested interest.

"The point where we are now, it's a perfect point to look at it," he said.

Paula Cox:

The Big Conversation — a hallmark of Premier Ewart Brown's regime — would "morph" under a Paula Cox administration.

Ms Cox has declared her desire to take the shouting out of race discussions and she says the Bermuda Race Relations Initiative "will have a different focus from what we have now".

"The Big Conversation has been more public discourse. I think it's gotten the issue on the radar screen. It may have made people initially wonder, but I think it's got the issue on the main forum," she said.

"In Bermuda, we talk in sidebars: in meetings we don't say what we really think. We go into the corner or sidelines to speak."

But she believes the past few years have been like a teenage period for the Progressive Labour Party Government.

"Now as a fourth term we have got to deepen and see real change and reform that doesn't necessarily have to be signposted with exclamation marks," she said.

"It has to happen as opposed to having the discussion always in the headlines."

She says conversations will continue, notably with business leaders, because of concerns over stereotyping and income and economic disparity.

"We have to make real progress and meaningful progress in addressing that," she said.

"I think we have to have some critical conversations. It doesn't always have to be in the public eye. We certainly have to talk to those in a position as business leaders to effect meaningful change. We have to have some real dialogue."

Human Rights

Paula Cox:

While much fuss has surrounded the absence of sexual orientation from the list of protected grounds on the Human Rights Act, Ms Cox says that's just one of several omissions.

"I think it's wrong to discriminate against people for their sexual orientation, race, age — any number of things," she said.

"My background is as a lawyer: human rights is important to me.

"I do think we have to make sure we don't start singling out one area of discrimination, we also have to look at others."

She says the Act is currently being reviewed but, while she supports making amendments, it will ultimately be a decision for the Progressive Labour Party caucus.

Terry Lister:

Mr. Lister says adding sexual orientation to the list of protected grounds under the Human Rights Act would be a lot less scary than people think.

He doesn't commit himself to adding those two words and a comma to the act, but says he offered to support then-Culture Minister Dale Butler's bid to do that two years ago — with a caveat.

"When Minister Butler was trying to bring that forward, there was a lot of concern," he said.

"I said to Minister Butler, I would support your change if you go out and you explain to people what this is, so those people most afraid of any further advance of a group of society can see what this really does, and see there's no need for people to get worked up, excited and marching on Parliament or anything like that."

Health

Terry Lister:

Mr. Lister throws his support behind FutureCare 100 percent — but says it should be funded the same way as social insurance is funded.

He believes people would happily make a $5 or $6 contribution to FutureCare if they knew it meant the service could compete head-to-head with BF&M or Argus.

He says he is quite pleased overall with hospital treatment available in Bermuda, but would consider creating a men's health care centre to encourage men over 40 to visit the doctor and get treatment.

Paula Cox:

Government has to find ways of ensuring health care is more affordable for everyone, Ms Cox believes.

"I think we are on a good wicket with health care, but we have to continue to look at what we can do to improve access and find the right affordability model, not just for the consumer but for the Country," she said.

"We have to look at what we can do to make it more affordable and make sure we don't ring-fence those that can afford to pay."

And she says while the way FutureCare operates will be subject to review, it simply has to continue.

"We are refining it and reviewing it to make it cost-efficient and affordable," she said.

"If it isn't do-able, we will make some service changes. But it has to work."