What does the Employers' Council do?

A: The Employers' Council looks after the affairs of its membership in relation to labour relations, it puts on a curriculum of training programmes to improve and develop the skill sets of employees within our members' organisations and, it's responsive to our membership needs. How many members do you have?

A: We have about 420 members that represent about 12,500 employees.How difficult is it to improve and develop employees' skill sets when one considers the challenges of today's public education system?

A: With lots of hard work, determination and persistence. We are talking to guidance counsellors in the schools, discussing the skill sets that we expect people graduating from school and entering the workplace directly, will have. We're trying to find ways, with them, to put on the particular programmes that will help fill the shortfall that exists. We're trying to talk to them about those students going overseas to school, about the careers they're pursuing, so that we'll understand who's coming back with what, and in what time frame they're coming back. But the challenges of education are broader than just employers' challenges of education. What are the challenges?

A: I couldn't sit here and tell you what they are because I only hear about them from the perspective of individuals who are applying for jobs and what skill sets they don't have, but I'm sure that the education challenges are far broader than just that one facet.From an employers' perspective, what are the challenges today?

A: I think our challenge is actually quite simple ? finding resources to perform the roles in our organisation that will allow us to deliver the services and goods we provide to Bermuda. Bermuda has over employment. As a consequence, there are a little over 9,000 work permit holders today and a number of Bermudians hold two jobs. So it's trying to find people to fill the roles in the organisations so that we can provide the services and goods to our customers. And the resources we have the greatest shortage of are?

A: That's broad. If we wanted to get into a discussion on all the different industries and professions and so forth....we're probably short in many, many things. There's probably very few that we have the right amount of people for the number of positions that exist. Let's just take an example, if you look at the hospitality industry, the hospitality industry today doesn't resemble the hospitality industry back when I was growing up and when you were growing up. There were many, many Bermudians filling lots of different types of positions in the hospitality industry. Today when you walk into restaurants or the hotels, you tend to be greeted by non-Bermudians who are filling all kinds of positions. We have very few Bermudians entering our hospitality industry so it was good to see the announcement the other day by the (Bermuda) Hotel Association and the (Tourism) Minister (Ewart Brown), that there are some initiatives to try to entice people back into the hospitality industry. But it's cyclical. It changes. Industry strikes seem to be called far less frequently today than say, 20 years ago. Do you think there are fewer because there are far less Bermudians working in the hospitality industry? Do you think the unions are less likely to go to bat for them?

A: No I don't think so. I don't think that people that are in a bargaining unit have a face or complexion, the same way management doesn't have a face or complexion. I think what you've witnessed (between the 1980s and today) is better relations between the two ? a desire to work together more and involve one another and communicate better with one another. I can't speak to what was not good twenty years ago because I wasn't a grown-up, an adult in the working world, but I think for the most part the discussion and the dialogue is very good these days. And there's another factor, which is that there are different types of negotiations which take place today. The type we employ in our group is called interest-based bargaining. We do not come in and speak to specific numbers for raise increases, we speak to the interests of management and the interests of the bargaining unit and we try to get those interests aligned and discuss the economics of all of it. If there is information that we need to seek to speak to the interest, we'll put together a group that's equally joined ? from members of management, members of the bargaining unit ? to go and do the research and come back and present to a whole, what's the optimum solution for the organisation.Has the BEC's relationship with the Department of Immigration improved with (former BIU head) Derrick Burgess' appointment as Immigration Minister?

A: We've always had a good relationship with Immigration. We've always had a relationship with Immigration. I'd suggest to you that the discussions we've had with the Minister ? we had a meeting with him last week ? have been very good and been very encouraging, and we look forward to working along with him to advance and obtain the things that we need to keep our businesses successful. But is it difficult to work with someone who once fought for the interests of employees?A: No. As I stated back when his appointment was announced, many employers held that position under the previous Government. I believe that it's good to have somebody with great years' experience in employment relations in the position, because they understand the challenges. So it will be left to see the decisions that he makes and the policies that he starts to put in place whether he was good or bad, but you can't prejudge him. The backlog of work permits? How are they moving?

A: They're improving. (The Department of Immigration has) made a commitment to get the backlog cleared ? not just of work permits but also of good corporate citizenship applications as well as key person applications and essential exemptions. They've shared with us that they're doing that through a ramping up of staff, and they've actually asked us to look into our membership ranks to see if we could provide them with three secondments for a three to six-month period. That wouldn't specifically be looking at work permits but would allow people employed today to move across to deal with work permits and these would deal with other things that are required. So it's kind of a partnership in helping. How disruptive do you anticipate the work permit term limits will be?

A: One has to remember what's underpinning that policy in the legislature, and that is a desire not to have population growth beyond reasonable expectation ? to not have people come here and then declare that they cannot go home, that because they've got nowhere else to go, they now have to stay in Bermuda. As a Bermudian I certainly support that. We cannot just allow people to come and grow our population. We have a land mass that's only so big. But one also has to balance the fact that people are coming here, that we do have over employment. We want to make sure, number one, that we're attracting the best and the brightest to our shores. Number two, we want to make sure that people are fitting well into our community, that we don't look at a six-year limit and say you have to leave now and the person that replaces them finds it really disruptive. So it's a balancing act. The discretion for the balancing act lies with the minister and at this point, because we haven't been through it, I'm going to say we'll judge it based on the decisions we see. But aren't there regulations which could be put in place which could restrict stay without disrupting the flow of business?

A: The challenge is that it's a lot of pressure on the housing market, there's pressure on our taxation system. There's a large majority of non-Bermudians who are here who have children in public education. We all pay taxes to support public education and so that's a burden that we have to pay for. We're not encouraging non-Bermudians who come here to put their children in private education ? which they pay for. A lot of them would probably opt out because it costs too much to put their kids in private education. So it's not just about coming and doing a job, it's about what are the ancillary things that all need to be taken care of and what are the external pressures of having someone come and fill a position aside from just the fact that we just don't have a Bermudian for the role? But even with a term limit, once that period of employment ends, another person will come and take their place.

A: Where I see the policy going at this point in time is (the Department of Immigration), when you're somebody who's on the table for a particular position, will look to see if you have children, how many children you have, what age they are etc. I think we've realised through the last 15 to 20 years some of the errors of our ways and we're at an understanding that says we can't continue in that vein. It's just going to cost too much and it's spiralling out of control. At the end of this review of applications, what would be a good position for your members to be in? They get sixty per cent of the employees they want? Seventy per cent?

A: I think it goes back to the deficiencies of industries. There's a deficiency in the number of qualified accountants in the world. There's a deficiency of engineers in the world. So where we have organisations on the island acquire those two as an example, we've got to be able to compete to bring those resources to the island because we're not turning them out fast enough in our schools. You cannot take every single industry and use its depth of people available, side by side. In other words, where you've got deficiencies in those, you've got others for which it would be quite easy for some Bermudians to train and develop and start to take on the position. But those take seven, eight, nine years and more and if you make a blanket policy that you're trying to apply across the board, it's very difficult to do. And I think the tactic they've taken to say, these particular ones are exempt because of deficiencies or shortages world wide, that's a good step. The second step that they've taken, to say that we will look at these on a case by case basis, and we are prepared to listen to the merits of exemption, I think that's a good thing too. Not knowing, and having a backlog of these things sitting up there, is what's causing the consternation. And I believe, given the opportunity to work through it between now and the end of the year, you'll probably see that a lot of the exemption requests have either been approved or (the Department will go back to employers) for additional information. But I think it's important that it be done case by case. I wouldn't want them to say Bermudians could be gardeners today, we don't need gardeners anymore. Obviously Bermudians aren't entering gardening to the degree that we have a number of gardeners on the island. So if we want to continue to provide gardening services and we don't have enough Bermudians, we must have to bring in some non-Bermudians to fill the positions.Some might argue against the need for an Employers' Council ? they run the businesses, they own the businesses, what's the point?

A: Very simply put, the Employers' Council is a union of employers the same way a union is a union of employees, it protects the rights and interests of employers. Otherwise, their rights are not protected. Government can institute policies that violate the rights of employers the same way (employers have the potential to) violate the rights of employees. In its broadest sense, a union or an organisation has been developed to protect the rights of employers. It exists in most of the developed nations and developing nations in this world. It's not unique to Bermuda. The International Labour Organisation model calls for employers' groups and workers' groups along with governments, in tripartite fashion, to have social dialogue which would advance policy.Is there any truth to the oft-expressed belief that employers tailor their work permit applications to certain people's skills?

A: That's a myth. Go back to the numbers. We have over 9,000 work permit holders. The unemployment rate that was last published was 2.7 or 2.8 per cent ? that's seven or eight hundred people. You don't even have ten per cent of the number of work permits that you have unemployed and not factored into that equation is the number of Bermudians who work two jobs today.

So the suggestion that work permits are tailored to a particular person...if someone has knowledge of that, they can go to the Labour Department and voice the complaint and that will be addressed. But I suggest to you the statistics coming out of those cases that have been reported, where it's been proven, are very, very, very few, if none at all. We're very supportive of the Labour Department when there's an employer that's offside, providing the employer is in our membership. We have no control, no sanctioning ability over any employer that's not in our membership. So I guess one of our biggest concerns in recent times is the brandishing of the term "employers".

We believe that the employers in our group strive for best practices and as a consequence, do the right thing. But I'm also aware that there are employers out there in our island that aren't our members, who I can't sanction, who, in instances, don't do the right thing. So we support the Labour Department when it comes to our membership and making sure that they're on one side. How do you control Mr. and Mrs. so and so who employ a nanny and makes her work 1,800 hours a week? I don't know how you do that. Is Bermuda conducive to small business success? To entrepreneurship?

A: Certainly the Government has been encouraging and empowering entrepreneurship. Some of the new tax breaks that you've seen for smaller businesses obviously will be an incentive to spawning new businesses. The economic empowerment zone over in North Hamilton is another way by which you're going to get some new businesses starting. That's all good. That's the ground stone of good economics ? people being able to start businesses. The challenge for Bermuda is this: we compete in an ever-increasingly competitive global market place. If you want to do something here that's going to be received globally, it's going to have to have advantages over what everybody else is doing. That's a challenge. So if we're going to set policy that precludes the best and brightest from coming here and being here and thinking and creating new ideas, then it's going to be a challenge, but I don't think that will happen.

Why did you become involved with the Bermuda Employers' Council?

A: I've always had an interest in employment relations. I've always had an interest in people full stop, and in people being treated fairly. So when I was invited to be a part of the board, I thought about it and spoke to one or two people that I'd used as mentors in the past. They thought it was a course in good progression and I became involved, I guess six years ago now. I've enjoyed my time with the BEC. I've had the opportunity to go to Geneva twice and participate in the International Labour Organisation's annual conference. That is an opportunity that I would encourage many people to take advantage of. To actually see and witness the tripartite dialogue taking place with respect ? it's something that most people need some exposure to. You can have a difference of opinion, and speak to one another in a respectful manner and get your points across. It needn't be confrontational. I guess if I have any regret it's that in about another year I'll be finished my term.