In his last interview before he retires today, Mr. Lines let governments, educators, realtors, his critics and a few others know what he thinks of them.

He actually held his tongue just a wee bit on realtors.

Firstly, Mr. Lines believes many Bermudians see the Island as more important on a world scale than it really is.

"For example, Bermudians talk sometimes like the world sees us as a major power. It's nonsense. We're actually pretty small. We talk about ourselves as a Country. Our perception of ourselves, sometimes, is so far beyond the reality.'' This discussion followed the mention of the word Independence.

"What is Independence?'' he asked. "We have to be realistic. We couldn't fend off a gunman on a speed boat.

"Look at some of our aspirations. If you consider all of the demands being made, you know we can't meet them. We want a Lincoln Centre-style cultural centre, a Houston Astrodome-type sports centre. We can't afford them, there's not enough people to support them and we don't have the ability to build them.

"We have to remove the grandiose views of ourselves and forget the grandiose schemes. We have to get where we fit in the world into proper perspective because, right now, our perspective is way out of sight.

"Even this bank, that many Bermudians see as such a huge institution, is really a small player on the world stage. We're only a big frog in our own little pond.'' One day before the interview, the Consumer Affairs Board had criticised the linking of real estate and deposit companies -- similar to Bermuda Home, the merged real estate and deposit company of the bank and LP Gutteridge -- as "an inherent conflict of interest''.

"They are out of touch,'' Mr. Lines said of the consumer protection group.

"Their comments are based on no questioning, no comment and no knowledge -- and no attempt to find out information that would let them know if they really should be concerned.

"That statement was inappropriate. It was a totally gratuitous observation.

If it is a part of Government, they shouldn't be allowed to make such statements, unless they have good reason.'' Criticisms of Bermuda Home by realtors also came under fire.

Getting out of his chair and speaking rapidly, Mr. Line said: "I know the small-minded views of some people in this Island, who have wanted the banks out of the real estate business. They invent rules that they claim are in other jurisdictions, that they say does not allow lending institutions and real estate agents to be together.

"Those are allegations with no substance or evidence to back them up. They are making comments based on fear. There are numerous instances worldwide where mortgage companies own real estate companies.

"The realtors have been fighting our participation in real estate for so long. And they have lost.

"There has never been one single incident at the Bank of Bermuda where the mortgage department used its lending ability to generate a sale. The bank has never taken a commission on a property where we financed it. They (realtors) have never been able to identify one case, name one incident of these allegations, in the 25 years I've heard them complain.

"They are not making the kind of money they used to make. That's why they are complaining. And some behaviour by realtors over the years has been reprehensible.

"I can't really tell you what I think about some of these realtors, because they would be offended. We have no reason to antagonise the agents.

Some of them we respect. But we have been in the real estate business for a lot longer than many of them.'' Mr. Lines the reasons the bank sought to merge with LPG and "get out of the real estate business'' were exchange control relaxation and the prospects for long term financing.

Mr. Lines indicated that with a backdrop of a failing real estate section at LPG, which he said "can't stand on its own'', the decision was made to join it with the bank's real estate section, which he said was primarily involved in property management.

"Sales certainly weren't the biggest part of our business. We only had one salesman.'' The bank will soon underwrite a $15-million rights issue for Bermuda Home.

It will be needed, because as he puts it, "We gave our real estate business to Bermuda Home for nothing''.

Mr. Lines also defended the bank against criticisms it had failed to promote blacks or women.

Shown a copy of the bank's annual report for 1992 that contains a picture of the executive officers, he had no apologies for the fact they were all white men.

"We do have blacks and women as managers. The pay scale is no different for people doing the same jobs. There has never been any impediment to anyone succeeding. Those on our executive are first class people.

"You know, it is a reality of business. We're not elected officials of Government. In business we simply pick the best people qualified. Of our 1,200 people locally, 800 are women. They make up the core of our personnel and they are our backbone.

"The biggest problem with democracy is that people sometimes get elected for the wrong reasons. Maybe they are popular, the right colour or represent the right pressure groups. That is the problem with governments today. Many of them do not have good managers.

"Not just here in Bermuda, but look at the US cabinet. They try to select cabinet members outside of the elected officials. They are supposed to be non-elected, professional managers. What's gone wrong is that now it is a cross-section of people who have accomplished nothing, but who represent a power group. They don't have a lot of ability.'' Pacing the floor of the corner office he is about to give up, he said: "Here at the bank, we have to be responsible to our shareholders. They don't see anything wrong with the make-up of the executive. Oh, there will be a time when there will be blacks and women there. We're grooming someone right now.

We are aware of the concerns of the community.

"I think that there is an opportunity for you if you are black or a woman.

But you still won't get there without ability.'' Mr. Lines said that he turned down an offer to return to Bermuda in the 1960s because he wanted racial attitudes to change. He said he wanted to see a breaking down of the barriers. He admits the changes are taking time to filter into the board rooms. But he does believe it is happening.

Those thoughts led to a brief discussion on education. It began with almost a mutter: "I wish the public school system would be more interested in education than building buildings.

"We need more dedicated teachers. There are some, like Dale Butler. We are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum, but I respect him as an able and dedicated teacher. Unfortunately, in my opinion, there are too few who are.

There are far too many teachers in the public school system who are form instead of substance.

"We need to be teaching kids to think for themselves. As a country, we can afford education, but what are we spending the money on? ...We need to give our kids more guidance and direction in education. They should know what they are studying and why, what it will mean to their future.

"We have such bright kids here. But we need to inspire them. We need more inspiring teachers, teachers who are inspired themselves.

"We have spent a lot of money on education in this Country, and it has not all been spent well.'' When Mr. Lines leaves the bank, he will be succeeded by Englishman Mr. Charles Vaughn Johnson.

Asked why no Bermudian had been readied to take over the job of guiding Bermuda's flagship company, he said: "The bank is too big now to guarantee that because you are there and a Bermudian that you will become CEO. The bank is an international company. There is not even a guarantee that the major decisions of the bank will be always made in Bermuda.

"Bill Thomson,(executive vice president) would have been a candidate. But he pre-empted any decision by saying that after 40 years of service, he was going to retire. Louis Mowbray (senior vice president, personnel) will also retire.'' Mr. Donald Lines.