Minister of Youth, Sport and Recreation the Hon. Pamela Gordon yesterday said many United Bermuda Party MPs had voiced concerns about the impact of Independence on international business.

They were worried about businesses packing their bags and running off to other jurisdictions.

"They gave their views and concerns about the Green Paper on Independence and what it meant to them.'' But, said Miss Gordon, her party colleagues should realise Bermuda was not just made up of one segment of the community.

They should be aware, for instance, of all those in the past who fought the good fight to win the right to vote.

"While it is most important to have concerns about what will happen to international business, very few if any on this side of the House took on the concerns of the everyday Bermudian, the person in the community who should have a major say in something as irreversible as Independence.

"We haven't heard that. We have concerned ourselves about money. One member said `nothing is more nervous than money'.'' Miss Gordon, however, stressed: "Money is always finite, but hope is eternal.'' She added: "One must always be interested in what the little man has to say, what his concerns are, and where he is going.'' A lot of MPs had expressed fears about what was going to happen, made misrepresentations, and indulged in hysteria and hypocrisy.

House Speaker the Hon. Ernest DeCouto objected to the use of the word "hypocrisy'', and Miss Gordon withdrew it.

Miss Gordon continued by saying she did not accept the argument that international businesses will take flight after Independence.

But she warned about the effects of scare-mongering.

"If you sell fear, you are going to buy fear.'' Miss Gordon said much of the political emphasis during the debate had been on political and financial stability.

"One we don't want to address is social stability.'' She said every time there had been civil instability, the Ministry to benefit was hers.

The Youth and Sport Ministry had been asked to take on the job of "calming and quelling'', and smoothing troubled waters.

Miss Gordon went on to take a potshot at Shadow Human Affairs Minister Miss Renee Webb for stating that all the Opposition MPs spoke with one voice on Independence, while the Government benches were divided.

But Opposition Whip Mr. Stanley Lowe had struck an individual line by saying he liked British pomp and pageantry, said Miss Gordon.

Speaking with one political voice, did not mean buying into everything chapter and verse.

At this stage, Shadow Sport Minister Dr. Ewart Brown jokingly chipped in: "That's all right. We will give Stanley Lowe a small Union Jack.'' Other Opposition MPs also interjected, saying Mr. Lowe, while enjoying British ceremony, still supported Independence.

Miss Gordon continued by swiping again at Miss Webb for declaring that virtually all blacks backed Independence, whiles whites were against.

"Such a generalisation is embarrassing,'' she said.

Miss Gordon then tried to address those who had criticised the Green Paper for being short on substance, glib and shallow.

"What I find interesting is that the members who criticise and had the opportunity to make presentations to the committee preparing the Green Paper did not do so.'' She added: "Is their fear of the discussion of Independence so overwhelming that they really don't want to be honest and realistic?'' These critics had merely engaged in sarcasm.

"Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and the weapon of the ignorant.'' Miss Gordon also attacked those who complained that Independence had not been mentioned in the Blueprint, the UBP's 1993 election manifesto.

But these people had not kicked up any fuss over Parliamentary salary increases, which were not in the manifesto either.

Indeed, they were only too keen to vote themselves some more money.

Miss Gordon also accused the PLP of having being unclear about its own proposal for moving towards Independence.

It was only now that the party had made it clear that it proposed two general elections -- not just one -- before cutting ties with Britain, she said.

The PLP position was to fight one election on Independence, then embark on an education exercise on the issue, and then go to the polls again.

Opposition MPs objected, saying the party's position had never changed, and that Miss Gordon was misleading the Country.

Miss Gordon continued by defending the Green Paper against those who protested it was incomplete.

It was the easiest thing in the world to criticise, and it was obviously true that not all the information about Independence had been included.

The paper, however, was merely the start of a process.

Some of the hysterical and emotional outbursts by MPs were unhelpful to the debate.

Miss Gordon said it was amazing that some MPs who seemed so concerned about Independence and were privileged to work in international business had made investments in former dependent territories.

Now they were engaged in scaremongering, and telling the Country how everything would fall apart if Bermuda went independent.

"I find it strange that we are all going to become corrupt and fall to pieces and that managers will suddenly no longer know how to manage because of just the discussion of Independence.'' Miss Gordon said people often cited Jamaica as an example of a country which went on a downward economic spiral after Independence.

Jamaica did indeed suffer a "brain drain'' when capitalists left the island.

But this was because the country's rulers were flirting with Castro and communism.

Miss Gordon said Bermuda needed "sober and sane judgment'' as it contemplated going it alone.

And it was a decision for the people of this Country to make through a referendum.

It would be the height of arrogance and pomposity for 40 MPs to decide the destiny of the Country, she said.

Miss Gordon ended by asking Bermudians whether they wanted the UBP, with all its 27 years of experience, to manage any move towards Independence, or would they prefer beginners like the PLP.

The UBP were experienced drivers for the journey, while the PLP still had "L plates'' on, she said.

Shadow Education Minister Ms Jennifer Smith said she hesitated speaking on the debate because of the excellence of the presentations by her party colleagues, including PLP leader Mr. Frederick Wade , Shadow Labour Minister Mr. Alex Scott , and Shadow Environment Minister Rev. Trevor Woolridge .

Mr. Wade had outlined the party's position, Mr. Scott had given a political overview, and the Rev. Woolridge had adopted an emotional approach.

Ms Smith said she was also speaking -- albeit briefly -- because it was important for everybody to stand up and be counted on such an important subject.

"I am in favour of Independence,'' she declared.

Ms Smith said she found a lot of contradictions in the Country -- and this was highlighted by the Independence debate.

For instance, some MPs had admonished others for talking about the past.

And yet in May Bermuda will be celebrating heritage month, and acknowledging its past.

It was curious how some people, said Ms Smith, had great difficulty with discussing past when it came to certain issues, such as racism and Independence.

One MP even made the most extraordinary statement that `one can be passionate without being emotional'.

This was a contradiction in terms, said Ms Smith, since passions involved emotions.

And there was nothing wrong with being emotional about a subject, since it displayed depth of feeling.

Turning to the Green Paper itself, Ms Smith said it had come in for a lot of criticism from certain quarters, including the Chamber of Commerce, the banks and The Royal Gazette .

There was a feeling that the paper did not contain sufficient information, was not educational, and falls far short of what it was meant to achieve.

Ms Smith went on to stress it was not the PLP who had consistently attacked the UBP Government for not including Independence in the Blueprint.

It was the voting public.

Ms Smith also took Miss Gordon to task for saying MPs were quite happy to receive pay increases even though the question of Parliamentary salaries was not raised in the Blueprint.

But it was not for a party platform to propose pay hikes.

Miss Gordon did not seem to make a distinction between a party document like the Blueprint and the Throne Speech, said Ms Smith.

Ms Smith, however, praised Miss Gordon for answering those who raised continual fears about businesses leaving an independent Bermuda.

She said there was no need to elaborate on this part of Miss Gordon's presentation.

Ms Smith went on to slam Government for not taking a stand on Independence, despite taking great pleasure in having a mandate to govern.

And she also tore into Government's Green Paper for its glaring inadequacies.

Government's failure to inspire people about the Independence subject was revealed by the poor attendance at forums designed to discuss it.

People were "resoundingly apathetic'' up turning up.

Ms Smith concluded by saying the Country should prepare for Independence just as people prepare for old age.

"That is how I see the process of Independence.'' After Ms Smith sat down, Opposition MPs expected Human Affairs Minister the Hon. Jerome Dill to make his presentation next.

But after Mr. Dill failed to rise, Shadow Delegated and Legislative Affairs Minister Mrs. Lois Browne Evans stood up to speak.

"Disgraceful,'' said Ms Smith to Mr. Dill.

Mrs. Browne Evans immediately launched into an offensive against the Government, condemning the way it had handled Independence.

The Opposition had been clear in its approach, and signalled its support for cutting links with Britain.

Mrs. Browne Evans said Government was being "kicked in the posterior'' by its own members over the issue.

And it was sad and embarrassing to see the loneliness of Premier the Hon. Sir John Swan because of the hopeless divisions of his party.

Mrs. Browne Evans said many people who had fought for democracy in Bermuda would turn in their graves to see how some MPs still wanted to hold on to the coat tails of Britain.

"Great Britain is willing to let us go,'' Mrs. Browne Evans added, pointing out the UK had told the United Nations it was not guilty of hanging on to its colonies.

Mrs. Browne Evans said economic worship and enthralment had been at the root of the world's problems.

"I pay great respects to all those people who worked to see that in Great Britain and the United States all men shall be free.'' And she saluted those people who had not taken the easy route and joined the UBP to seek personal advantage.

Mrs. Browne Evans pointed out she herself had avoided the temptation of joining the UBP.

She then turned to the central issue of her presentation -- the perceived unfairness of the electoral boundaries.

The PLP had dug its heels in on the issue, and wanted the "gerrymandering'' of the past to be rectified.

"How dare the Government and Cabinet members approach Independence without these issues being resolved.'' Mrs. Browne Evans told how she attended the 1966 Constitutional conference in London during the Labour Government of Harold Wilson.

And she accused the UK Government of being "co-conspirators'' with Sir Henry Tucker, leader of the UBP delegation.

Mrs. Browne Evans said the PLP had called for fairer electoral boundaries, with one man-one vote, with votes being of equal value.

The PLP wanted the number of Pembroke seats increased.

In the end, the UK Government with a "sleight of hand'' agreed to a UBP Government compromise that the number of Pembroke seats be boosted to four, while increasing the tally of MPs to 40.

Mrs. Browne Evans said she was disgusted with the Labour Party, and still felt the same way today.

"It made me lose respect for the UK Government.'' The same kind of contempt was displayed by Britain when the 6,000-name petition over the hiring of UK Policemen was handed to Governor Lord Waddington.

It was time for the parties to operate on an even playing field.

Mrs. Browne Evans said the PLP had taken note of the UBP MPs who had expressed strong opinions about Independence.

The PLP would be taking note of how they vote on Friday, and whether they stood by their principles or made a U-turn.

Continuing after lunch, Mrs. Browne Evans said there was no mention of a White Paper in the Green Paper, and she did not know whether Government would produce one or not. She was waiting to find out Government's position on various issues.

Through a yes or no referendum, how could people express their views on United Nations membership or the set-up of a Ministry of External Affairs. "How do they tell you if you went to an election?'' asked Deputy Premier the Hon.

Irving Pearman .

"They'd see your platform,'' interjected Shadow Human Affairs Minister Ms Renee Webb .

Mrs. Browne Evans said Mr. Pearman had not had the experience of putting out a platform in each election campaign, as the PLP had.

The cost of Independence had always been bandied about "and put forward as a deterrent for moving forward by all the opponents of Independence.'' But you either wanted Independence, or you didn't.

"Give us the taste of true freedom, and true freedom cannot come while we're tied to our mother's apron strings.'' When it came to Independence, the Government should "join hands with the Opposition,'' and a joint select committee should be formed.

Human Affairs Minister the Hon. Jerome Dill said that during the debate the members of the committee that wrote the Green Paper had had "their integrity questioned and their intelligence insulted.'' But he was proud to be a member of that committee.

There had been many arguments regarding Independence, but few had focussed on the contents of the Green Paper.

Mr. Dill had heard the "pseudo-intellectual argument'' that the Green Paper was not a Green Paper at all. But he dispelled that by reading a definition from the Parliamentary handbook Erskine May.

He noted the Green Paper had been criticised by opponents and proponents of Independence. But Mr. Dill said the attacks came so quickly, the critics could not have read and understood the document.

It was not Government's position, as one member contended, that the issue of race was part of the Country's history and should be forgotten. The past was inextricably linked with Bermuda's present and future.

A majority of people in Bermuda who favoured Independence were blacks, but did most Bermudians favour Independence? The debate had to focus on issues of race and Bermuda's colonial past, but that did not mean it had to be "negative, counter-productive, or antagonistic.'' Bermuda had a tendency to "brush under the rug'' important issues, and it was time to show the Green Paper could be dealt with "without tearing ourselves asunder,'' Mr. Dill said.

The right to self-determination is `fundamental' - Dill From Page 6 "This is a historical debate,'' said Mr. Dill. "If we carry this debate to its logical conclusion and if we put the question which we on the Government side are seeking to put, this will represent the very first time in the history of Bermuda that we've been able to deal with this extremely sensitive subject, ask the people their view, and move on.'' The right to self-determination was "central and fundamental to all human beings,'' and people were "clearly mistaken'' when they said Government did not have a position on Independence.

"The position is simply this,'' he said. "The issue of Independence for this Country is a fundamental issue, and that issue is called the right to self-determination.'' Critics had said the costs cited in the Green Paper were "clearly inadequate.'' But on office costs for example, the committee had thoroughly examined those faced by other overseas organisations, including Bermuda's Tourism Department.

The Ministry of Works and Engineering had also assisted.

One MP had cited a $6.5 million a year External Affairs cost for Barbados. But that country was much larger and had need for greater overseas representation.

The "Bajan population'' in the United Kingdom, for example, was 60,000 people, Mr. Dill said.

While the committee had been criticised for misstating the UK position on metropolitan status and "the non-Hong Kong option,'' British Cabinet Minister Mr. Tony Baldry had stated in writing on three occasions that the Green Paper got it right.

Other critics talked about a "pro-Independence bias'' in the Green Paper. But how could that be when the Green Paper stated that there would be additional costs resulting, and that it was hard to identify tangible benefits? Perhaps the critics did not even want potential benefits stated. They just wanted the document to say, "Don't go Independent -- it's all doom and gloom.'' Government did plan to issue positions on various issues before the referendum, Mr. Dill said. No member of Government had said on behalf of Government that it was the intention to take Bermuda to Independence.

"No one can accuse us of attempting to run headlong into Independence,'' Mr.

Dill said.

The critics, both opponents and proponents of Independence were "going about this all wrong.'' They should address the issues, not attack the integrity of committee members.

Nobody said the Green Paper was perfect. There was more work to be done. He disagreed with Mr. Trevor Moniz that former Premier the Hon. Sir David Gibbons had torn the Green Paper "to shreds'' in a February 18 interview published in The Royal Gazette .

Sir David was a statesman, Mr. Dill said. "The information put forward, such as it is, in no way deviates from what is quite correct,'' he quoted from the article.

Others had said Bermuda faced too many problems to deal with Independence now.

But quoting Dr. Martin Luther King, Mr. Dill said: "The true test of a person is not where they stand in times of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and controversy.'' Government could deal with more than one issue at a time, and was dealing with the Bases.

Some said Bermuda had to deal with the race problem first. But the United States had been Independent for centuries, had affirmative action for 30 years, and still had "the most horrendous race problems.'' Government was moving forward on the race issue, offering courses for people in race relations and recently launching a study of what was in Bermuda's museums, to name two things.

Premier the Hon. Sir John Swan , in a wide-ranging speech, said the debate had provided "a revelation as to where people stand individually, and where we come apart collectively.

Commending the Green Paper committee, Sir John noted that the PLP wanted Independence decided in a general election, while Government wanted a referendum, so Bermudians could decide on one single issue.

What if an election was fought in which both parties said they would take Bermuda to Independence? Then there would not be a choice for or against.

Sir John commended Opposition Leader Mr. Frederick Wade for articulating the PLP position, which he said was "far clearer than the UBP position.'' "It's unfortunate that my party comes divided on the question of whether or not we even address the subject,'' he said.

There were those who favoured Independence, and those who opposed it "under any circumstances.'' Some guests in Bermuda felt left out of the process and their contributions were welcomed. But "we must have an honest wrestle with this problem ourselves if we are to move this Country ahead.'' Sir John said he remained unhappy about the racial issue in Bermuda. The Island had so much, but whether racism was practised by whites or blacks, "we are a divided Country.'' Bermuda had to get out of "a state of denial.'' Struggles to improve the lot of Bermudians had always been for the better, but "there were people even in slavery who didn't want to be free,'' Sir John said. "They did not want to leave their masters. I hope we do not have that in 1995.'' When Sir John returned to Bermuda in 1960 after attending school in the United States, he joined the Universal Adult Suffrage Movement, which "took on Front Street,'' he said.

Through the help of many blacks and some sympathetic whites signs like those in real estate that said "approved purchasers only'' were finally torn down.

He saw industrial action and civil disorder. "We made good progress,'' and those on Front Street were prepared to embrace young people into their offices. "Things started to move.'' But "the one movement that failed,'' which was the reason the House today stood divided, was the "total integration of the school system.'' If that had happened, the PLP would be "much more integrated,'' and maybe the UBP would have been different, too. "We would have had a different perception about how we see each other as fellow men.'' But the Country could still be pulled together, Sir John said.

"If you are in a boat together, and that boat needs to be preserved because you're in an ocean by yourself, you'll make an effort to make sure everyone knows how to bale, and everyone knows what direction the boat's going,'' he said.

"Sensitivities will start.'' Sir John said he could not "expect people to understand what it's like if they've never been discriminated against.'' And some were "in a privileged position that they can ignore these conditions and totally pursue life.'' Black and white Bermudians could have "mutual respect,'' Sir John said.

"That's when nationhood starts.'' Someone said all Bermuda's social problems had to be solved first, but where was the incentive? Bermuda had effectively taken over the Bases, and Finance Minister the Hon.

David Saul continued to produce Budgets with current account surpluses and low debt.

"And you can't pay your MPs,'' interpolated Mr. Stanley Morton (PLP). Bermuda had recently built a new prison and a new incinerator, and Bermuda College was being completed, Sir John said.

And the Island had a AA1 credit rating from Moody's. The investor service had said that because Bermuda had been self-governing for years, "Independence will not greatly alter the Country's political make-up or economic foundation,'' he said, tabling a document from Moody's. That was how people saw Bermuda from outside, rather than from inside, he said.

Maybe when the self-esteem of Bermudians was raised because they got "something that belongs to them,'' the race situation would improve. A sense of nationhood gave nothing materially, but something spiritually, like belonging to a church. "That's something that money can't buy.'' Some said the Bermuda flag was the dollar bill, but the US dollar, in particular, was shrinking. "I don't want a shrinking flag -- I want a growing flag,'' Sir John said.

Critics kept saying international businesses would leave, but they wanted stability. Only if Government did something stupid would businesses leave.

"They've done it to Independent countries. They've done it to dependent places.'' Some said wait until 1997, when Hong Kong is returned to the Chinese. Suppose the UK did give Bermuda and the remaining dependent territories metropolitan status.

Would Britain allow these islanders to "drain on them'' without receiving a benefit? It would work both ways, Sir John said. "You can go to Britain, but the British can come to Bermuda.'' Also, "you'd probably end up paying taxes.'' There was great exaggeration to claims Independence would be a disaster.

"When people lack faith in themselves, they are heading for disaster,'' Sir John said.

The exaggerations resulted in "a Country in shock,'' he said. "There are poor, innocent people out there believing that tomorrow disaster is going to hit. I meet people in the street and they say they can't sleep.

"They think the Government is going to fall.'' International business was making a lot of money in Bermuda, and it was growing. In fact, it had experienced huge growth over the last 18 months, while the Independence debate was on. But local companies that had "used international business'' had a privileged position, Sir John said. They also had a responsibility, because "it's their utterances that will decide whether business will stay in Bermuda or goes out of Bermuda.

"It has nothing to do with Independence.'' If Bermudians that did business in the international sector said Independence was alright, "it would be okay,'' Sir John said.

Some asked Sir John why he was "so obsessed'' with the Independence issue.

Premier for 13 years and in Government for 20, Sir John had run the company John Swan Ltd. since 1962. Having spent a lot of time in homes and businesses, "what I realised was that we needed a reconciliation,'' he said.

Different groups spoke the same language, but did not communicate. "We need something that has a oneness about it, that doesn't belong to someone else. It belongs to us and we nurture it and care for it.'' Bermudians were not marching for Independence in the streets, but Bermudians only marched when they were unhappy about something. The public wanted more information. But before they would take the issue seriously, Bermudians wanted to know whether they would have a referendum.

Once that was decided, Government would issue positions on the various constitutional issues.

We need to define what a Bermudian is - Sir John From Page 8 Citizenship was important. "We need to define what a Bermudian is,'' Sir John said. "You can't have a decent passport in a real world sense until you define what a Bermudian is,'' and "not in a bastardised sense,'' as presently.

Independence would "start a psychological process, that if someone goes in that Country to work, they know they must treat the natives with equal respect,'' he said. "They have no rights other than the fact they are guests in that country.'' Some came to Bermuda and felt they had "inalienable rights.'' "Independence is just a word. It's all psychological, the spiritual side.'' Front Street needed the back of town and vice versa, Sir John said. Otherwise, "conflict will eventually destroy,'' he said. "The day the natives get restless and feel as though they are not being fairly treated...'' The 1979 White Paper said a majority of Bermudians opposed Independence. There had been newspaper and other polls, but Parliament had never commissioned a poll on the issue, Sir John said.

When members talked about the Bahamas, they needed to remember that "if we wanted to be irresponsible,'' or extravagant, "we could be irresponsible as a dependent territory.'' The UK had authorised Bermuda to negotiate the Base closures, and the tax treaty with the US. In that case, "I had to drag some members of Front Street to the table,'' Sir John said. "They pat themselves on the back'' now, but when the Premier got word from Washington that there was a problem, many denied it.

Sir John spent more than five years shuttling to Washington to negotiate the treaty, when the media said it would never happen. Similary, the Finance Minister had taken a tough position with respect to trust companies.

On Independence, "do you know what the tragedy is?'' he asked. "We tend to get people to buy in (to the status quo) who are not even benefiting from it.'' Bermuda's success did not need to be altered as a result of Independence.

Consular representation around the world was shrinking, and the cost estimates for Independence outlined in the Green Paper were likely too high.

The Shipping Register in the Bahamas brought in $5 million, while Bermuda's, due to British restrictions, brought in $500,000. So the Shipping Register alone might cover the cost of Independence.

People had to get away from the idea the status quo was "okay,'' because things were "not okay,'' said Sir John, citing lawlessness. Those who opposed Independence and were in positions of authority should not act irresponsibly and "do an injustice to this Country,'' he said.

His fear was that an injustice would be done, a sense of injustice felt, and the Country plunged into a "negative dark hole.'' The Country had paid the price for the failure to integrate the schools, but 1995 was "an opportunity to make another major step forward.'' It was true Independence was not mentioned in the UBP's 1993 campaign Blueprint. But the public was only being given a chance to decide. If Government was planning to take the Country to Independence, that would have belonged in the Blueprint.

In going around the community, Sir John "got tired of the blank faces'' from white business people when he talked about the glass ceiling. "I don't see any significant shifts yet, and I want to see them,'' he said. "I'm tired of waiting around. I've been the Premier for 13 years.

"I said, I'll get their attention, and I can tell you, attention has been gotten.'' Now, "maybe we won't go Independent,'' but businesses were finally tackling the race issue. "Sometimes we've got to stimulate in order to produce results.'' It would be easy for Sir John to say, "I'm alright, Jack,'' and try to preserve the status quo, but that was not his way, he said.

Sir John said Bermudians "beat up'' on themselves too much, and tended to lack faith in each other.

Opposition MPs cried out the Government had beat up on the Bermuda Police Service by bringing in foreigners to head it.

Two senior Bermudian Policemen with 66 years of combined experience were capable of heading the force, yet were ignored, they said.

But Sir John countered that mere length of service was not always the best credentials for a job.

"After 23 years in the House I can still make mistakes,'' he said.

Sir John said organisations such as the banks brought in managers from abroad when they felt it was required.

He asked why Government should be expected to be different.

The important thing, Sir John stressed, was to ensure Bermudians were trained and capable of taking on the top jobs.

Sir John said the Police Service should be considered against a backdrop of rising crime, which needed to be addressed. The world was changing, and Bermuda had to keep on top of change. It was doing so, and had proved an extremely successful Country, he said.

Sir John suggested no other comparable island benefited from 13 flights a day.

Bermuda also had more tourists per capita than anywhere else, he said.

But despite the success, Parliamentarians sent out negative signals to young people.

Sir John recalled speaking to a rotary club in 1988 in which he talked about the challenges facing Bermuda, and how the Country needed to take a hard look at itself, particularly with all the changes in technology.

It was essential to change while you were still successful.

The problem with many former dependent territories -- often mentioned by those against Independence -- was that they were not prepared for going it alone.

Unlike Bermuda, they had not run successful a Government for 25 years, and managed their own affairs effectively.

After all, Bermuda was not a crown colony, but a self-governing colony, said Sir John.

"We make our own decisions, we are responsible, and we should not shirk our responsibilities.'' Sir John said the proposed Prospect school exemplified how Government wanted to make more young people feel a part of the Country.

"I can look at young people whose parents are a part of this Country and those people grow up feeling a part of it. But the children of parents who are not a part of it don't grow up to be a part of it, and end up in Casemates and feel left out. That is intolerable and we are reforming the education system to accommodate that.'' Sir John said when he looked around the Country he realised the people needed a "wake-up call''.

If Bermuda was to survive, the "natives'' had to be strong.

It was ridiculous, said Sir John, to pick up isolated reasons why the Country should not go independent, such as the prospect of losing association with the Organisation of Economic Cooperation and Development. Bermuda was not built on its links with the OECD. It developed because it was a stable society.

And it was important not to run around using scare tactics, such as saying international businesses would take flight.

Sir John said there was a tendency to be contemptuous about the Caribbean islands, and the way their economies had performed.

But he stressed: "I suspect the rest of the Caribbean have done the best they can with what they have had to work with...they have a sense of belonging.'' It was also important to look at countries in a global context.

In 1980, the United States was in strong economic condition, but in 1995 it was the "largest deficit country in the world'', with a massive debt, said Sir John. "We must build a country which belongs to our people, it is not just about raising the dollar flag, it is not just about raising the flag made of cloth. We must raise the spirit of our people, and raise the attitudes of people.'' He added: "I am a Bermudian through and through, and I feel the heartbeat of my people.'' Sir John said going independent would not mean breaking all ties with Britain, such as doing away with the Privy Council.

He pointed out the Privy Council was a very important part of the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth was far bigger than Britain, and even South Africa was being readmitted to it.

Sir John said some anti-Independence people had raised the sleaze spectre.

They made out that going independent would mean Bermuda would suddenly become corrupt. But this would not happen.

"We are really the world's respectable people.'' Independence meant being able to blossom, and getout of the shadow of someone else, just like a child who leaves his family.

People who clung to childhood never developed fully, said Sir John.

Bermuda was at this crossroads -- whatever the views of an editor of a certain newspaper, he added.

"Which newspaper?'' cried Opposition MPs.

Joked Sir John: " The Bermuda Times , of course.'' Sir John continued: "My suspicion is that we have got to a stage where we need to build a whole Bermuda, a total Bermuda, a Bermuda that everyone buys into.'' It would be a Bermuda to which "Front Street and back of town'' would belong, and where everybody would be treated on an equal basis.

Concluding, Sir John said the plebiscite -- or referendum -- would give Bermudians a chance of making that change.

"My hope is that we will move in that direction.'' Sir John said it was time for a "period of truth'' in which every allegation about Independence, and every "bogeyman round the corner'' could be challenged.

Conclusion of debate tomorrow