Mr. Frederick Wade set out his party's position on a wide range of Independence issues yesterday as debate began on the Green Paper.

Deputy Premier the Hon. Irving Pearman , who opened the "take note'' debate on the discussion paper, had "nothing to say about the major question, which is whether or not they are for or against Independence'', Mr. Wade said.

Independence was of "fundamental importance'' and Government had to provide leadership, Mr. Wade said. Instead, there was the sudden promise of a Government position paper, called a White Paper, from Premier the Hon. Sir John Swan . But only if the Independence Referendum Act 1995 was passed.

Mr. Wade said the PLP had favoured Independence since its inception. The party had not raised the issue in the 1993 General Election, because it felt Bermudians had their hands full with the recession and the Base closures, he said.

On citizenship -- the "most important'' issue around Independence, Mr. Wade said "any person who has Bermuda status, whether by birth or grant, has a right to Bermudian citizenship''.

The decision had to be left to the individual, because it was possible some holders of Bermudian status might not want Bermudian citizenship, because it could affect some other form of citizenship they wished to keep.

In the Bahamas, status holders were given a year to choose after Independence, Mr. Wade said.

That led to the question of dual or multi-citizenship, with which the PLP had no problem, Mr. Wade said.

Citizens of some countries were not even able to renounce their citizenship, he noted. For example, British people were British forever.

Also, "it would be our intention to make sure that no person would find themselves stateless on our Independence,'' he said.

Upon Independence, only citizens could vote in Bermudian elections, Mr. Wade said.

The Bermudian justice system had served the Country fairly well, though it could be improved. The present system, including appeals to the Court of Appeal and Privy Council, would be kept.

Appointments to the courts would have to change and might become a function of the Prime Minister after consulting with the Opposition Leader.

Bermuda would remain in the Commonwealth with a Governor General representing the Queen, but his role would be ceremonial. The Governor General would be appointed by the Prime Minister after consultation with the Opposition Leader.

On the Governor General's role in other appointments, "the basic principle must be that the Premier or the Prime Minister must have a say in choosing his Commissioner of Police, his Colonel of the Army, and the Chief Justice''.

Lower appointments would be made by a Judicial Commission.

Mr. Wade said the PLP favoured a politician as Attorney General, rather than a public servant. And some legislative drafting ability should be attached to Parliament, so that both Government and the Opposition could use it.

For other appointments, the Public Service Commission formula was there, but an overhaul was needed of regulations and the way the PSC operated.

The PLP supported the notion that public servants were aloof from politics and could serve any Government, he said.

Opening the debate, Mr. Pearman said polls showed most Bermudians wanted more information about Independence, and Government believed a majority favoured "a way of expressing their opinions''.

The Green Paper had generated so much interest that the BBC had visited Bermuda recently, and would be airing "fairly comprehensive'' coverage in Britain.

Government had distributed the Green Paper in The Royal Gazette , and the committee that prepared the paper was staying in place to answer questions as they arose. Some issues would have to be fleshed out in greater detail. And Government would have to have a specific view on issues like appointments, powers of pardon, and citizenship.

Responding to interjections from the Opposition calling for Government's position on those issues, Mr. Pearman said: "Let the honourable members opposite support a motion next week Friday, and I can assure you we'll give you all the information you want.'' Some had expressed concerns that the Green Paper did not deal with "worst case scenarios,'' Mr. Pearman said. But the document was to be factual, and it was not the commitee's role to hypothesise.

Others said it was too simplistic, but every Bermudian should be able to read and understand the Green Paper.

Government was particularly concerned about those who said a loss of confidence in Bermuda would follow Independence. Mr. Pearman had seen no evidence to support that.

"A lot will depend on how the Island is governed under Independent rule,'' Mr. Wade said. Negative scenarios cited by those who feared Independence could also develop while Bermuda was a dependent territory.

Many cited the experiences of islands in the Caribbean.

"Is this really important?'' Mr. Pearman asked. "Bermuda has always prided itself for being a little different, for being aloof from the Caribbean, for being far more conservative and having far more experience in self-government than any former dependent territory becoming Independent.'' Bermuda had 26 years of experience governing itself, while most islands to the south went to Independence "almost directly from under colonial rule''.

"Don't kid yourself,'' said Shadow Labour and Home Affairs Minister Mr. Alex Scott . "We're still under colonial rule.'' Costs were a real concern, and the committee had carefully studied that issue, Mr. Pearman said. The four options outlined had annual costs of between $800,000 and $2.3 million.

It was not the nature of Bermudians to be extravagant. "I don't know why there are these overriding concerns, unless there's a lack of trust that people are not articulating.'' For 25 years, Bermudians had governed themselves and allocated funds wisely, Mr. Pearman said.

"The figures we quote in this paper, if anything at all have got to be on the high side.'' Outlining the history of the Independence question in Bermuda, Mr. Pearman said a 1979 White Paper had said the time was not right for convening a constitutional conference, but local and external circumstances could change.

That was 15 years ago, before the end of the Cold War and the new world political structure, Mr. Pearman said. Bermuda had seen the closure of the Canadian, British, and now the American military Bases.

The UK had delegated Bermuda the power to negotiate the Base closures, and earlier tax treaties with the US and visa arrangements with other countries.

This year was the 375th anniversary of Bermuda's Parliament, and it was "a wonderful time'' to be discussing the Country's future.

The UK had been consulted on Government's referendum plans and had "no objections'', he said. The British had also said there was "no further opportunity for advancement short of Independence''.

The situation after Hong Kong was returned to the Chinese in 1997 had been discussed specifically, Mr. Pearman said. The formal position was that the British had not discussed it, but there "may be opportunities for reasssment'' after 1997. "This raises complex issues.'' Informally, the committee came away feeling it was "a most complex matter'', he said.

Mr. Pearman said there seemed to be "paranoia'' about Bermuda's internal security after Independence. But the Police and Regiment had been upgraded since the last civil disturbances.

Government would keep appeals to the Privy Council upon Independence, Mr.

Pearman said.

The United Bermuda Party was "a diverse party'', and there was no Government position on Indpendence, Mr. Pearman said. Speaking before Mr. Wade did, he said the PLP had not stated its position either. All the public had heard was Shadow Labour and Home Affairs Minister Mr. Alex Scott saying Bermudians would "have to get in a queue to qualify'' for citizenship.

The PLP position was "vote for us, then we'll decide,'' Mr. Pearman said.

In hi speech, Mr. Wade said the PLP had two pre-conditions for Independence -- electoral reform and an end to the foreign vote.

Bermuda had to get rid of dual seat constituencies and stop the practice of letting some long-term foreign residents vote.

Through lopsided constituencies, Sir John wanted to "lock'' Bermuda into a system which did not give equal weight to each person's vote.

Noting the PLP had called for a Green Paper over Government's plan for a Commission of Inquiry, Mr. Wade said he saw the document as "a start.'' But instead of a referendum, the next step should be a White Paper, followed by an election, a Constitutional conference, and another election.

Government was split on the issue of Independence and needed to "get their house in order first''.

The Premier wanted to hold a referendum, then run to London as fast as he could and hold a Constitutional conference.

But the referendum would not give the Premier a mandate to negotiate Independence, because the public would not know what details they were endorsing. Bermudians would not be voting on whether they "agree with John Swan's theories about juries and the birch and reversing the presumption of innocence,'' Mr. Wade said.

"Why don't you grow up,'' Sir John interpolated.

The United Kingdom Government was giving Bermuda contradictory messages. On the one hand, it said there was no step between Bermuda's present status and Independence. But on the other hand, the UK said it might re-examine the situation after Hong Kong was returned to the Chinese in 1997.

Presumably, the UK was referring to metropolitan status, and "there is some other possibility there which may arrive in 1997''.

"So what are you proposing?'' interjected Health and Social Services Minister the Hon. Quinton Edness . "That we stay a dependent territory? Is that what you favour.'' "It's not what we favour,'' said Ms Renee Webb (PLP). "We're saying it's a possibility.'' If it was a possibility, said Mr. Wade, those who were being asked to vote in a referendum should be told.

"The British Government plays these kinds of games with people's lives,'' and the reason they could not answer directly was because of its "racist policy'' toward the Chinese, he said.

Mr. Wade said he was not saying whether the PLP was for or against metropolitan status.

"He's vacillating; he's confused,'' Sir John said.

"I'm very clear,'' Mr. Wade said. "If the Government was properly briefed and if they did their job properly on this question, it would seem to me they would try to ferret out an answer as to whether this question of metropolitan status was possible, even after Independence.'' "You know that's not possible,'' Mr. Edness interpolated. "Let's not do that to the people of this country.'' `You're doing a disservice to Bermudians,'' Sir John said.

Mr. Wade said Government had accepted a "contradictory, unclear, unsatisfactory'' answer, when it should have gotten a "clear, unequivocal'' one.

Mr. Wade said the Country had, by and large, enjoyed stability over the years -- thanks to the PLP.

And Independence need not change that stability.

Ironically in the past, the UBP Government had maintained Independence would destroy the Country.

"We have been alone seeking Independence, being ridiculed and laughed at.'' Looking to the Government benches, he stated: "Your message has come back to haunt you.'' Mr. Wade said the UBP Government was reaping the whirlwind of its propaganda.

Now it had to realise the importance of changing tack.

The Government ought to maintain the Island would remain stable, whichever party was in power.

Said Mr. Wade: "To go out and undermine the system for their own political gain in counter productive.'' Mr. Wade said everyone knew people with money and in business got "jittery'' whenever change was contemplated.

Mr. Edness chipped in: "I don't get jittery.'' MPs roared with laughter when Mr. Wade fired back: "You have no money. That's why you don't get jittery.'' He added: "It's normal for people with money to be jittery when there change coming about. It is natural for business clients to become anxious and a bit nervous in a world that is changing rapidly.'' But Mr. Wade stressed Bermudians had always possessed the "capacity, brains and common sense'' to persuade such people their fears were unfounded.'' Bermuda had not built up its tourism industry and international business, only to throw it away once it cut ties with Britain.

Mr. Wade it was hypocritical for some institutions here to invest in former dependent territories, now Independent, such as Mauritius and the Far East, and then maintain that Independence would drive business away from Bermuda.

"We must not invent reasons why we should not go Independent. Let us be consistent and honest, and not be selfish in our attitudes.'' Mr. Wade said Bermuda had to approach Independence in a "sane, sober way''.

"We are not approaching Independence in a sober, sane way.'' This was demonstrated by the way the UBP had thrust Independence on Bermudians, when there was no mention of it in their election manifesto.

"After the election it is suddenly the big issue. That is the kind of thing which creates instability.'' Mr. Wade said Government liked to run down Caribbean islands which had achieved Independence.

But take the Bahamas, for instance. This country ran two international airports.

"Why can't Bermuda run an airport?'' Mr. Wade believed Bermuda could remain stable if it kept its head.

Turning to internal security and defence, Mr. Wade said Bermudians had historically proven themselves peace-loving people.

They were not the kind of people to engage in "bloody conflict'' to get solutions.

The unrest in 1968, 1972, and 1977 amounted to "minor skirmishes'' compared to other countries.

"We haven't generally seen the kind of violence and upheaval in other parts of the world.'' In some ways this was surprising since racial segregation provoked outrage.

Mr. Wade believed all that was needed were "minor refinements'' to the Police once Bermuda went Independent.

As regards external security, Mr. Wade said Bermuda would have to negotiate treaties with its friends, such as the United States and Great Britain, to provide "mutual protection and defence''.

It was completely unrealistic to expect Bermuda to mobilise an army to defend itself.

When Haiti recently required assistance from the Caribbean, Jamaica dispatched some 36 soldiers to the country.

"It was almost comedic. There is no question of us developing an army to defend itself.

"I don't think we have to be overly concerned. We have to take steps to protect ourselves, of course.

"But we should not shrink back from Independence because of that.'' Mr. Wade said Bermuda was not in the business of making enemies, and a PLP Government would not do so.

Bermudians' main concern was to get enough money to enjoy a reasonable standard of living.

Mr. Wade said cost should not be a deterrent to Independence, either.

Bermudians by nature were "tight'', modest, and not prone to ostentatious living.

This was demonstrated by the way former Premier the Hon. Sir John Sharpe and "the leader of a powerful union'' went around on motorcycles.

Mr. Wade stressed it was essential Government saw the benefits of getting a clear mandate from Bermudians on Independence.

He added the Green Paper should be discussed as widely as possible in public.

"To date we have had no debates between the parties.'' Mr. Wade said he would have preferred himself to have got a better feel from the public about Independence before coming to the House for this debate.

House opens marathon Independence debate "We as a party are lucky, however, as we have had input over the years. We know our members in the party and how they feel about Independence.

"We view this question of Independence as a very serious and important step in our Country's history, which one should not make without careful consideration of all the facts.'' Wrapping up, Mr. Wade said Independence could unleash a similar kind of "birth and rebirth'' to the one experienced at the end of the Second World War or slavery.

"It could unleash a new period of development for our people.'' Mr. Wade said it was important to move forward in unanimity, to ensure Bermuda set a course for happiness for all of its citizens for time immemorial.

Finance Minister the Hon. David Saul said he "took off his hat'' to Mr. Wade for the "quality of tone'' of his speech.

He said he found his head nodding in agreement at times.

On the other hand, Mr. Wade's speech also contained a considerable amount of sophistry, repetition, and a few errors.

For example, it wrong to state the UBP had brought up the issue of Independence for the first time after 25 years of "mocking'' it.

Eighteen years ago, the Government brought forward a Green Paper on Independence -- this flew in the face of the Opposition's contention that the UBP had never countenanced the thought of cutting links with Britain.

The 1977 Green Paper had been followed by a White Paper in 1979.

"The whole gist of a Green Paper is to try to get the facts out to the public at large,'' said Dr. Saul.

It was not the time for innuendo or political propaganda.

Dr. Saul said Mr. Wade appeared to get mixed up between a Green Paper, White Paper and a Constitutional document.

It was also quite wrong for Mr. Wade to state referendums were used in the British system when there was a crisis of confidence.

A UK referendum in the 1970s on entering the European Common Market was not the result of a crisis, he said.

The Green Paper debate will be concluded on Monday.