I don't want Bermuda to become like that. That's very disturbing. I have spent a lot of time in Holland and I have seen what that can be like and what it must be like to live under. We need to get a stronger sense of who we are. And once you get that you don't feel threatened by outside forces and right now we feel threatened by outside forces. That's a real sign of weakness. A positive identity would only strengthen the country rather than weaken it.

Q: You mentioned that economically Bermuda is wealthy but there is something missing. Trevor Moniz puts the argument that Bermuda is one of the richest places in the world and if it ain't broke why fix it? What's your response? A: Those people who focus just on the economy -- Bermuda is not just a company. It has a social infrastructure and people who are more than workers.

If you ignore the social side you create the conditions for unrest and discontent. We have seen this in the riots in 1968 and 1977, we had the two Royal Commission reports written about them which said Bermuda needs to address culture, identity, that's what helps to strengthen the country. We are a wealthy country but that could disappear overnight if there is unrest. You can't segregate the economy from other dimensions of society.

Q: Where will an independent Bermuda face internationally. America? Britain? The Caribbean? Or all of them? A: Economically our success has been connected with the US. I think we should diversify so we are not so reliant on one country for our economic livelihood.

We should increase our European tourist market. I think we should join CARICOM. Bermuda can benefit from and assist in the development of Caribbean countries. We should share some of our knowledge and success. Clearly Bermuda can't stay on it's own. We are a very small country. We will never have a great leverage, or be a key international player. But we can sustain our economic model. I am looking for a broader approach which we can't see now because we need to get permission from Britain.

Q: What's do you think the UBP view of independence is? A: They have no appetite for independence although they have some supporters.

Wayne Furbert and Maxwell Burgess are strong supporters but the anti-independence camp is dominant. Anyone in favour will have to curtail their enthusiasm. I can't understand the fear in this country to realise full democracy so the Police force is accountable to people you have elected to run the country and we can negotiate airline routes without Britain saying we want to make sure we have an additional landing slot in the US. We have managed our financial affairs all on our own for decades. We switched the currency to tie it with the US on our own. For a small jurisdiction we have a squeaky clean reputation and yet we are now being told by Britain they want to look at our financial system. They are going to make recommendations. We should be completely affronted but we just acquiesce, all of a sudden there is this reassertion of colonial practices.

Q: One fear raised by the anti-independence lobby is to look at the islands to the south.

A: Absolutely ridiculous arguments. They should know better.

Q: They pick out examples of countries that have done badly. Could you name countries which have done well? A: There is no need to. Take the issue of Bahamas. They increased taxes on international companies. It wasn't because of independence that they left.

They increased the tax burden so of course they would leave. It's a disingenuous argument to say that these countries suddenly became poor on independence -- they were already poor. That's what colonialism is -- to extract wealth. Bermuda is an exception in the same way as Australia, New Zealand and Canada are exceptions in that they were settler colonies not colonies of exploitation. The structure was created for the people there and the wealth stayed there and there was an infrastructure. In most of the other places the infrastructure was one main road or railroad system that went to a port to take the products.

Q: Another fear raised by the anti-independence lobby is that some of the nations which have gone to it have turned into one party states.

A: But there's no connection.

Q: No, but would it be a good tactic to persuade the anti-independence lobby that there would be a structure in place where no party could dominate? The two things are linked because the PLP are saying let's cut a few seats.

A: Well if you believe in the principle of democracy then you always accept the people are correct and whatever vote they have, if it's a free vote, then it's a legitimate expression of the people's will. If they support one party for a long period of time then it might be appropriate.